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	<title>Comments on: Python&#8217;s Flying Circus</title>
	<link>http://fdiv.net/2008/02/22/pythons-flying-circus/</link>
	<description>the floating point divide</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 18:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
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 		<title>Comment on Python&#8217;s Flying Circus by: cwright</title>
		<link>http://fdiv.net/2008/02/22/pythons-flying-circus/#comment-36224</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fdiv.net/2008/02/22/pythons-flying-circus/#comment-36224</guid>
					<description>An epilogue:

Python in Python does allow for a similar degree of introspection.  Parameter types are not available (this is a change coming in Python 3 from what I am told) though, so it's difficult to make a free-form interface, even internally.

In the 3rd to last paragraph, where I said &quot;it's like hese Python Developers have never worked on real projects&quot;, I meant people who wrote documents I found or discussed things with me on IRC, AIM, or via e-mail, not the actual Python Developers (who were ahead of their time back when Python was first developed).  In retrospect, this is an embarrassingly condescending attitude, but I feel it has some validity:  There's never an excuse for incomplete documentation, especially for longer-running, widely used technologies.

For an anecdotal demonstration, let's compare two real-world scenarios:  

First, I burned a bit over a week fighting with the python library to basically do sort of what I wanted.  I couldn't get introspection working from outside python space, and I couldn't properly handle exceptions from outside python space either.

Second, on our weekly trip to the Yon Reptile Campaign (a 4 hour drive in a small VW Cabrio), smokris was able to, without internet access, make a functionally identical proof-of-concept application using Apple's JavaVM bridge (which, as the article notes, is largely undocumented).  With another hour in my hands, I was able to twist the runtime to tell us everything we needed to know except for parameter names:  java class binaries don't store this data, so it's impossible to provide after compilation.  A regrettable weakness, but also a sound demonstration of a technology that was designed to work in heterogeneous environments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>An epilogue:</p>
	<p>Python in Python does allow for a similar degree of introspection.  Parameter types are not available (this is a change coming in Python 3 from what I am told) though, so it&#8217;s difficult to make a free-form interface, even internally.</p>
	<p>In the 3rd to last paragraph, where I said &#8220;it&#8217;s like hese Python Developers have never worked on real projects&#8221;, I meant people who wrote documents I found or discussed things with me on IRC, AIM, or via e-mail, not the actual Python Developers (who were ahead of their time back when Python was first developed).  In retrospect, this is an embarrassingly condescending attitude, but I feel it has some validity:  There&#8217;s never an excuse for incomplete documentation, especially for longer-running, widely used technologies.</p>
	<p>For an anecdotal demonstration, let&#8217;s compare two real-world scenarios:  </p>
	<p>First, I burned a bit over a week fighting with the python library to basically do sort of what I wanted.  I couldn&#8217;t get introspection working from outside python space, and I couldn&#8217;t properly handle exceptions from outside python space either.</p>
	<p>Second, on our weekly trip to the Yon Reptile Campaign (a 4 hour drive in a small VW Cabrio), smokris was able to, without internet access, make a functionally identical proof-of-concept application using Apple&#8217;s JavaVM bridge (which, as the article notes, is largely undocumented).  With another hour in my hands, I was able to twist the runtime to tell us everything we needed to know except for parameter names:  java class binaries don&#8217;t store this data, so it&#8217;s impossible to provide after compilation.  A regrettable weakness, but also a sound demonstration of a technology that was designed to work in heterogeneous environments.
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